Reclaiming the JOY of Business

Josh Saunders - Episode 4 Reclaiming the Joy of Business

• Stephen Sandor • Season 3 • Episode 4

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Commitment to Values: Balancing Work, Family, and Business Success

In this episode, Josh Saunders, Managing Director and Founder of Logmaster, discusses his personal philosophy of not asking others to do what he wouldn't do himself, his acceptance that long working hours are necessary to be successful but it can be balanced with a commitment to family-first values. 

He emphasises the importance of attending significant family events over work obligations and highlights a success story of how Logmaster's support transformed an employee's life in Mongolia. 

The conversation delves into the personal and business challenges Josh faces and his approach to creating a business that balances financial success with supporting staff well-being.

00:00 Introduction and Personal Philosophy
00:28 Balancing Work and Family
00:50 Impact of Logmaster

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Steve Sandor:

In this episode of Reclaiming the Joy of Business, I had the great pleasure of speaking with Josh Saunders, who shares his journey of embracing innovation and applying it in a human-centric way to build a very successful business. Josh tells us about his strategic focus on identifying a niche in the marketplace and then going all in on enhancing the user experience and empathy towards both the customers and his distribution partners. Josh's business model, grew out of a clear picture of what he and his partners were trying to achieve. And then experimented with different options until they settled on an approach that is now paying dividends. Josh revealed that these principles have driven the growth and profitability of his venture and the conversation offers a glimpse into Josh's personal motivations, his commitment to family, and the remarkable positive impact his business has on the lives of employees globally, and making for an engaging and inspiring conversation. Josh and I recently caught up for lunch and I asked him the question about what was the support that he sought as he was developing the business and what he told me was what I tell the majority of my clients when they are first. Moving into a particular area, and that is to seek out people who have actually done what they are trying to achieve. So find mentors, people who have walked down the pathway that they are intending to walk down. And then once they know what's ahead of them, what they can then do is then to build the resources around them to be able to achieve the outcomes that they are looking to achieve. Josh has got this beaming smile, and it's obvious that he has reclaimed the joy of business. In fact, I'm not sure that he ever lost it. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Josh Saunders as much as I did. Welcome to reclaiming the joy of business. My name is Steve Sandor, your host today. And my guest is Josh Saunders. Josh, welcome.

Josh Saunders:

Thank you, Steve. Thanks for having me.

Steve Sandor:

Thanks very much for coming on Josh. It's really great to have you here. I know that you've been, you've got a really successful business. can give the audience a little bit of, uh, context, a little bit of background of what, you know, what the business is and how you ended up getting to where you are today.

Josh Saunders:

Sure. Okay. So, uh, so the business is called Logmaster Australia. We, uh, uh, NHVR accredited electronic work diary. So basically it's a government regulated tool for truck drivers so that they don't have to fill in paper diaries. anymore. So I'll show you what that looks like. So when you're a truck driver in Australia and you drive a truck, that's 12 tons or over for more than a hundred kilometers away from your base, you have to fill in one of these big ugly paper log books. Okay. But

Steve Sandor:

for those of you who are listening on audio, that's a massive book, which has got like pages and pages.

Josh Saunders:

Yeah, so it's a pretty heavy, clunky old book, uh, that system has been around for quite a long time and the truck drivers are required to mark in their start location, start odometer, uh, start time, rest times, all of that sort of thing. Um, and they're to be handed into the office and, you know, kept on record in terms of fatigue management. Um, and when a truck driver gets pulled over, uh, by a roadside official, they're asked to show their logbook, and then that official will go through that logbook with a fine toothed comb, looking for any fatigue breaches, or admin errors, or whatever they can to issue a fine to that truck driver. So, in Australia, the rules are, um, Comprehensive on it. It takes a lot to really understand all the work and rest records for truck drivers. So in short, what we did is we digitize that we turned it into a mobile app that you can run on Android and Apple and our system is designed to help drivers stay safe and compliant while also showing them. Hey, you're about to make a mistake when your logbook here. Are you sure you want to do this? Are you sure you want to do that? So in short, we've digitized that we've turned it into an app to keep the drivers safe, to keep their wallets safe from fines as well. So that was the first step creating that one product. Um, and then we went further to give the business a whole lot of features and benefits in managing their compliance.

Steve Sandor:

You don't look like a truck driver. Um, I don't know what a truck driver looks like these days. So what, what, what led you to this particular niche?

Josh Saunders:

Great question. Um, we, we didn't set out to do this for trucking. We actually set out to do this for passenger transport. Um, Ride share and gig economy. So if I go back to the origins, um, I was an operations manager for a big ride share company in Australia. And the problem that we're having in ride share at the time was a lot of, uh, passengers were coming into the office and saying on the ride that I took recently, I felt unsafe, the driver was clearly very tired and fatigued, maybe swerving, um, there's a big problem there because when you drive ride share. You know, you got to put in a lot of hours to make, to make a wage, right? And so, uh, these rideshare drivers could, maybe they drive for 10 hours on Uber, and then they do another five or six hours on a different platform. Then maybe they go and deliver some Uber Eats and all of those hours behind the wheel start stacking up. Um, there's no, Network effect across different service providers to manage fatigue. So my business partner and I set out to solve that problem. The, the reason there was no, uh, commercial opportunity there is because the government hasn't put a rule set in place for passenger transport. So we have no guidelines to, to build technology for, but as soon as they are, we've built it, it's there, it's, it's waiting. So, but, uh, yeah. Uh, As soon as we released that, that first product and started consulting on it, the, you know, the, the truck driving industry was like, well, hey, we, we need something good. We've got all the regulations here in place. What about us? And so there's definitely commercial opportunity there to help truck drivers and, and their companies to stay compliant and, and, um, You know, well looked after. So that's what we did.

Steve Sandor:

Beautiful, isn't it? How things sort of just fall into place sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Now, when you started, um, obviously there was some challenges like every startup has. Yeah. What were the, what for you and your partner, what were some of the biggest challenges that you faced?

Josh Saunders:

The biggest technical challenge for any company setting out to build a regulatory product is the process of getting the software to the standard that the regulator needs, and then having it tested to make sure it passes every, every part. And in this case, the regulator has a 74 page spec document on what an EWD has to do. That's the first bit. Then you need to get the right person in who understands all the ins and outs of, of compliance in trucking. Then you need a team of engineers to build it. Then you got to make it look good. And then you got to sell it. So there's definitely a lot of, uh, steps, uh, for our specific industry and our specific product, which were challenging, difficult. Um, but then there's all the standard business stuff, like how can we achieve product market fit quickly? What are all the barriers to entries? Uh, the barriers to entry for, uh, for this sort of gear. So like taking a real zoomed out approach on what we're about to do and making sure that not only have we got a great product, it's easy to use, but it's, it's, it's easy to buy as well, and it's easy to work with. So it was a really zoomed out approach that we needed to take to make sure that we lined everything up perfectly for success. Um, Even down to business model. Um, so we actually sell through channels. We don't sell directly. Um, and I think that helped us a lot. So we've got 70 plus of Australia's largest telematics businesses and compliance consulting businesses who on sell the product for us. So, uh, yeah, lining up everything. So it worked was a definitely a process.

Steve Sandor:

What was your strategic thinking behind it? So, you know, there's a strategy as that that has been promoted for probably for the last 50 years now is, you know, the art of the art of war and Sun Tzu and sort of that very much warlike approach competition. The rest of it. and the, there's internal and external considerations that you may need to make. Soft developers use agile sort of agile type building development. So as you approached each of these, challenges that you had, what was your strategic thinking?

Josh Saunders:

It always came down to what if I was the customer? What if I had the problem that we're solving? How would I want it to be solved the best? Not only just to meet what I wanted, but make it have some sort of emotional effect on me to the point where I go, Oh my God, I found something fantastic. And when I have a product that I buy and I think it's really great, I'm telling everyone about it. So I didn't want to just bring something to market that tick the box. I wanted to bring something that made a difference and made an impact on the users and made them want to tell all their friends to get it. So, you know, if I, if I was making a product to just tick a box, I would have had to do half the work, you know, but now today when a truck driver calls up and asks a question. And says, man, this thing makes an impact. It really makes me feel confident. And, you know, I get a lot of joy out of that knowing that, Hey, I did what I wanted to do, I brought something to market that makes a difference. It makes an impact. People love it. People refer it. Um, did I answer your question there?

Steve Sandor:

yeah, we've jumped ahead to the joy of business. We'll get, we'll get to that. Now that. Yeah, well, obviously, a lot of strategies is around how can you beat the competition? But what I'm hearing from you is more about what can we do to Enhance the life of the person who's using the product and okay. If we're better than the competition, so be it, if we're not better than the competition, okay, well, we'll just need to get better at providing a better solution for the customer as opposed to worrying about what the competition's doing, is that sort of the, is that where you were at?

Josh Saunders:

Definitely. We took into consideration our competitors at the time before launching, Um, and looked at their shortfalls or where we would do things better. Um, looked at what was working, what wasn't working, what features were out there. The way I looked at it was, if a transport business manager said to their, uh, assistant go and assess all of my options for this software and come back to me with a report. Our idea for building was that we were checking every box, but giving a clear winner, um, so that that assistant can go back to the boss and go. I've looked at everything. This one stands above the rest in all of these different aspects. Um, so that's really what we were thinking about when we're coming into it. How do we make sure we shine for each category that needs to be reported and in the decision making process?

Steve Sandor:

So was the problem that you were solving the fact that the compliance was difficult to, um, manage, you know, in a manual sense, um, was, so was that, is that the main pain point? Because it sounds like there were, uh, there were competencies. Competition out there that we're actually delivering an electronic or a technical, um, solution for that. So what was the, you know, if the, if I'm the transport manager of a large fleet of businesses, what's the thing that's, you know, causing me pain that makes me get my assistant to start looking for this?

Josh Saunders:

Okay, so there was two, there's two main pain points and two customer types to consider. The first one is the truck driver. Now the truck driver might be an employee, he might be an owner operator or a subcontractor, right? It's about trying to take away the risk of using paper in an easy to use fashion. That's the first customer and the first problem and we solve that by giving them an app that replaces the paper that prompts them and gives them alerts and makes it easy for them to stay compliant. The second customer is the transport business who has a whole fleet of drivers and vehicles to look after. Now, status quo for that person, that business, that entity is receiving paper a week after an activity is done, trying to remain compliant, trying to get all your records together, uh, and so on. So two different, uh, problems to solve, but we do all of that in our one platform. So, but the transport. Uh, for the transport company, we take them from retrospective compliance management to real time compliance management. So the moment there's an issue on the road with the driver, that transport office knows about it in real time and they can react to it. Right. With paper, you don't have that because if you look at long haul drivers, sometimes they're away from their base for a week or two weeks, which means they're collecting all this information that they need to dump on their admins in two weeks time and you know, how are you going to call a truck driver and go, Hey, Bob, you remember two weeks ago when you're in whoop whoop at 3am, you went over by two minutes. Do you remember that truck driver is not going to remember that. Whereas, you know, if it's real time, that admin can go, Hey, I've just noticed you've you're, you're about to go over. Are you, do you realize, Oh no, I didn't realize I'll quickly jump on and do my break now. You know, so it's really, really impactful and it's, it not only solves the core problem, but it gives them all of these other building blocks to improve the way they run the compliance within the transport business as well.

Steve Sandor:

And it's no wonder why you're, you know, you're so successful with where you're at at the moment, like everything that you're saying is like, it's making, you know, you, you end up with a, a wad of paper every two weeks. Well, someone, then it's almost like you've got this wave of information coming through and then you're gonna have to resource the business to be able to do the data entry, yada, yada. you've started doing the research, you found the niche, you go, okay, well, this is, you know, we can monetize this. There's, there's some opportunities here. Um, we, in this podcast, we'd like to talk about the mistakes that you were, that you made as opposed to just the successes, it's wonderful that everybody, you know, that a lot of people have had successes in their business and we encourage that. But my view is that those successes come as a result of, of the mistakes that you've made or the learnings that you, that you have had so, If there were one or two, uh, of those, Josh, that really were the, I want to use the word pivot, but I just did, um, you know, the pivotal moments, uh, in the history of the business that went, wow, you know, that was, that took us down a pathway that we didn't want to go down. And that was the lesson that we learned from it, or this was a great decision and, you know, this is how we ended up making a success from it. We've got a couple of examples.

Josh Saunders:

Sure. I can think of one. I mean, when we, when we set out on our channel partner journey, it was great where we were pulling in all of these partners and getting all these partners agreement and all these businesses ready to go and provide our product um, the idea was to package it all up and go, here you go. Here's a business in a box. Here's your training. Here's how to sell it and so on and so forth and put it in the hands of the telematics businesses to go and do that. So, Our idea was we could just go, there you go, go for it, go make the sales. It didn't quite work out that way because if you look at it, like if you're a salesperson and you're selling telematics, that's one side and you could be great at that. When you start to talk about compliance, some of those salespeople are a little bit like, Oh, I don't really want to get into those conversations because I'm not an expert. So I might just not sell that. Right. And so we learned pretty quickly, uh, yes, we've built it so that you can go and sell it, but maybe you don't feel comfortable selling it yourself and that's when I sort of said, you know what? Here it is, but all you got to do is spark interest with the customer and then put them on a video call with me. I'll do the, your job for you. So the moment we started doing that, suddenly everyone wants to talk about it because they know that I'm going to do the work for them. Um, so that, uh, that was definitely. Uh, when I identified the change that needed to happen, the success came a lot faster.

Steve Sandor:

So it sounds like you've got three clients now. It's sort of, it's like you've got the truck driver, the, the, the entity itself, that's using the product and then you've got the distribution points that you're servicing those. if you think about it, is, has that been the, the success? Was that where it's locked, where it lies?

Josh Saunders:

Definitely. I think, um, you know, fishing with a net better than fishing with a line, you know, um, and there's a bit of credibility that comes with that as well. When you sign a big global telematics business and they agree to promote your product, you know, there's a, there's some sort of prestige there, regardless of if they're getting someone from our team to jump on and do all the work. That big brand has identified our brand as going, okay, we're going to I believe in your team, I believe in your product, I believe in your process. I'm going to put you right next to our brand and you are going to sell to our customers. There's um, you know, there's huge success in that. And then like if you, if you look at the network effect that has, you go, okay, 70 different businesses out there, they might have a social media channel, they might have five to 10 or 15 reps. There's a lot of opportunity for our brand to be bought up way more than we could ever do it if we were selling direct. So definitely a huge success in going down that, um, through partner channel model.

Steve Sandor:

So I'm assuming that you're not taking all of those phone calls now, um, that you've actually been able to, um, gear up or scale up your business. So what were the, what were the challenges that you faced when you were going through that process?

Josh Saunders:

I'll be honest. I still do a lot of that work myself. Cause I love it. Like I'm, I'm, my background is in, in sales and I, I like dealing with the client. So I still do as many of them as I possibly can. Um, A lot of the partner businesses now have watched me do enough. Consulting with a customer and showing through the product that they're doing it themselves now without me. Um, so for me, it's about trying to get those reps and those businesses on as many of those calls and to watch what I do and how to explain the product and do the demonstration so that they can do it themselves, but I'm, I'm still in trenches every day doing those demos, that whole founder led sales thing is, uh, Is big for, for us, like I really enjoyed doing that.

Steve Sandor:

And in the future, do you see that being a part of your role or is there a point in time in the future where you just go, you know what, um, I'm, I'm going to hand this over to a, to a team.

Josh Saunders:

Um, so we started to do that now. So we've kind of automated the solo driver system because we, a lot of drivers come through on referral because they get told by a friend, Hey, you should get this uh, we've automated the signup process for solos. And when you, um, do an inquiry on our website, you'll get an email and you can get yourself up and running. Um, uh, smaller businesses generally will be handled by the team, or if there's some tricky thing that needs to be handled by me, I'll, I'll jump on it but Lately, I'm doing sort of 50, 80, 100 to 1200 sort of fleets, the bigger fleets that need a bit more handholding and consulting and, you know, you know, giving the customer the love and giving them the good treatment. I'm still doing that. Cause I want it. I want to be.

Steve Sandor:

Nice. That's what you love doing. Yeah. You're good at it. And you love doing that. So, you know, for whilst, whilst it's ever, um, appropriate, I guess that's where you are. Yeah. Before I ask the final question, what's the future for you guys at the moment? Where are you heading and what are your plans?

Josh Saunders:

International expansion. Um, so we're about 95 percent of the way through, uh, New Zealand but the next step is releasing product in Brazil, Malaysia, Indonesia, and North America. And so that's all happening next year. And that'll be, it'll be a big step, but lots of fun.

Steve Sandor:

Yeah. And, and is there a, um, have you, are you just, is it just rinse and repeat? So you're basically taking what you've done in Australia, you've finessed it. You've, you've done that in New Zealand, and then you'll just go through and find the partners in each of those countries and work your way through.

Josh Saunders:

We've already lined up partners for those, those regions, which is really great. Um, and it, it is a little bit like rinse and repeat. It's almost like pulling out all of the Australian regulatory controls and constraints and putting it into those other companies, uh, those other countries without the Australian regulatory rule sets built in.

Steve Sandor:

Right. How's your Portuguese?

Josh Saunders:

Not great. Not great.

Steve Sandor:

Oh, well, we'll have to work on that. That'll be interesting. Yeah. Um, well, maybe we'll check in with you in, uh, in six or 12 months time and see how you're going and, and see whether you're still taking those phone calls or whether you've actually moved on. Yeah. I, I think there's some value in. being at the coalface of business. I know Bob Ansett, um, he, the son of Reg Ansett ran budget and one of his, uh, requirements for managers was to be at the desk, uh, taking inquiries from people. Because he felt that, you know, sitting in your office, uh, edicting, what needs to be done changes to systems and processes without experiencing it didn't give you real understanding of what the problems were, or at least the problems that you thought you were fixing. So that unintended consequences. So yeah, it was, uh, I don't know too many businesses that actually do that now with the owners of the business or at least the senior management. Uh, at the, at least I haven't seen, I haven't been to McDonald's for a long time, but I can't imagine that the executives of McDonald's are doing that. But anyway,

Josh Saunders:

I'm a huge believer in that. Like I think if you're gonna, I'm always like, don't, don't ask someone to do something if you wouldn't do it yourself. Right. And the way we split it up, the other owner of the business, Stuart. So he handles, uh, the majority of support calls. So the way we've kind of set it up is if you don't have log master, I want to talk to you. If you do have log master, you want to talk to Stuart. And so the way we've got it split up is I'm dealing with all these new inquiries and, and that sort of stuff. Sure. It's dealing with existing and together we lead our engineering team with what's needed for new sales and what's needed for support and it just works nicely because we're able to say exactly what's going on and what's needed to go further.

Steve Sandor:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, as I said, I, you know, I'm an interest that we, we, we met probably maybe three or four months ago. I was interested then in what you were doing and thank you again very much for coming on the podcast. It's been great hearing what you've been up to. Um, the final question is, um, you know, bringing, reclaiming the joy of business, So what over the next 12 months. What's, what's bringing you joy? What are you looking forward to?

Josh Saunders:

The growth. I love to see the growth and we're growing so fast and it's not stopping. So, you know, over the next 12 months, it's going to be a little bit of different work for us with the international expansion. So a little bit of variety in what we're doing. Growing the team, I get, I get a huge kick out of what I'm doing here and it gives me endless joy. Uh, so, you know, just to see the next step and the next phase as we evolve and grow, it will bring me heaps of joy. Wonderful.

Steve Sandor:

All right. Well, as I said, we'll check in on that one. Josh, thanks very much for being the guest on reclaiming the joy business. You're welcome. Thanks so much, Steve. Cheers. All right. We stopped the podcast at this point, but we kept having a conversation and the record button was still on, and it was during this conversation that we really got to hear why Josh is doing what he's doing, his passion and love for the changes that he's making, the impact that he's having, not just on his family, but the employees that he's been able to employ and support, globally. And so I wanted to include this in the podcast as well because it really is reclaiming the joy of business. Keep listening. You are actually, you love doing what you're doing. I can tell it's, it's, it's, you know, there's, I can't imagine a day where you don't get up and enjoy, you know, going, this is how good's this? No.

Josh Saunders:

My wife thinks, my wife thinks I'm crazy. She'll look at me and go, can you have a day off? And I go, no. My love, my people need me. you know, uh, I'm just, I do, I get so much joy. Like I, I work. Crazy hours because it's part recreational for me. I just love growing this business. I really enjoy this, you know, growing and running this business. So it's my passion as well as my business. So,

Steve Sandor:

um, on that, so the, the balance of, of, you know, going to work and I know you're in your bedroom in your home office at the moment, but is that. Can it pose problems? How do you reconcile that? Is it, is it, is it because your wife just accepts it and she's loving what loving seeing you loved doing what you're doing?

Josh Saunders:

Yeah, I think there's a few things there. So I've got a five year old and a three month old, right? And my wife hasn't had to work for the last five years. And it's my mission to Be successful enough to keep her looking after our babies and, you know, keep her in a really nice home and a nice car and money's not a problem. And like, I feel like I'm winning if I can give her that awesome chill lifestyle where she doesn't have to worry about things. And so she loves that. She thinks I'm crazy. Absolutely. But she knows, you know, That I'm building something successful and she wants a really big boat one day and I gotta be able to pay for that, you know, and you know, I want a big mansion on the Gold Coast and her to have a boat out the back and like, you know, She knows that if, if, if I work from eight till six 30 some nights and then at 11 duck away into the office for two hours, it's what you got to do. Like you got to do what most people don't do so you can live the life. Most people don't. And she knows that. So,

Steve Sandor:

and, and do you get time to spend with the children?

Josh Saunders:

Of course. Yeah, absolutely. So five 36 o'clock I'm knocking off and I'm doing dad right until bed. Nice. Uh, you know, and on the weekends go out and do family stuff, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Steve Sandor:

So that's the balance, isn't it? So, you know, I've always, but I made a choice. Mm. We, I've got four kids now, but when, again, you know, Deb, when she, we made the choice that she would not work and that, and bring the children up because we didn't want children being brought up. Um, by nannies. Um, and we didn't have the, we didn't have the support mechanism close by. So, you know, my parent, both my parents had passed away. Deb's parents were up on the Sunshine Coast, we were in Brisbane. Um, you know, so we, we, we said, okay, you know, I'm making good money. Um, you, you can go and do what you need to do. Um, and And I always remember that the challenge for me was that I was working in corporate. So I was working for a large organization, a couple of large organizations. And I would have that philosophy as well, you know, I'm not at work, right? Or I'm taking this afternoon off to go and watch the kids in a play. But I'm more, you know, but I'm on outcomes based as opposed to time based. Yeah. And I, and that It never actually fit into the corporate way of thinking. It was always, but you're not here. I got no, but look at my results. You're unhappy with my results. No. Well, then why are you challenging me? And corporate just doesn't. Yeah.

Josh Saunders:

We're, we're very, like, it sounds corny, but we're family first at Logmaster. I always tell all the, even the engineers overseas, everyone who works for me, family first. Like if you've got to be somewhere to be there for your kid, do it. Like don't. Think that that hour or hour and a half working for me is more important than being there for that kid. Like we're, we're really family first. So if you need to be somewhere, if there's an event with your kid and you want to go, but you're working, just take the time off. Like, cause you don't get that again. You'll always be able to come tomorrow and do more coding for logmaster. But if it's a play, if it's a recital, like whatever it is, go do that instead of being here, we're not going to be angry. So very much like. And are

Steve Sandor:

your engineers, are they overseas based or are they australian based?

Josh Saunders:

Most of the actual engineers and coders are all over the world. I've got a great story to tell you quickly, if you have time. One of the early engineers that worked for, uh, worked for us way back when, um, uh, he lived in Mongolia, right? Do you know what a yurt is? Uh, is it a, like a yak type thing? I know, a yurt is like a It's kind of like a tent where a lot of mongolians live. Oh, right. Like a tent, tent building. Right. 10 tent. Right. Yep. Okay. So a lot of Mongolians live in a year, and when, uh, we met and started working with this engineer, he was great. And so we were paying him really good wages for what a Mongolian engineer would have. Mm-Hmm. Um, and at the beginning, he was living in a Yurt with his whole family and his wife's whole family in this one open tent thing right now. He's bought himself a house, he's bought his wife's family a house, and now he's studying in America on like a studying visa, all because Logmaster could feed him a good wage. And you, like that to me is just so awesome to hear that we took this one guy in Mongolia who was struggling, you know, poor living conditions, and now suddenly he's balling over there, he's got a car and a house and all because. We're, we're giving him a good wage for what he's doing. It's like, yeah, it's impactful to these people. Obviously we've got great engineers in Ukraine as well. So, you know, we've got engineers all over the world and they're living better because they're working for us, which is good.

Steve Sandor:

Welcome to the reclaiming the joy of business podcast. I'm your host, Steve Sandor. And my guest today is, Oh, Josh, I've lost you. Like I forgot your last name. What was it? Saunders. Saunders. That's right. Okay. First blooper. Uh, Josh, uh, thanks again for coming on. Well, um, just to give the audience a little bit of, uh, history, a little bit of background before we actually get into the bulk of the, um, of the, of the. Conversation.

Josh Saunders:

Uh, so a bit about me. Uh, so I'm a Brisbane local. So I, uh, yeah, um, can we, can we start that again? Can you, can you give me the question again?

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