Business challenges in 2023 - Post Covid and the Financial Tsunami - Simon Bedard

In this week's episode of the Inspiring Business Podcast, Simon Bedard from the Exit Advisory Group and I start with a discussion about the current economic environment and how business owners could look for opportunities in the aftermath of Covid 19 and the financial tsunami that is approaching us.
We expectedly navigate our way toward Emotional Intelligence and how to use it, and ways to attract and keep quality staff.

Simon Bedard  

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 Exit Advisory Group  

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 Buy Grow Sell  

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Stephen Sandor CEO Inspiring Business
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Transcript

Simon Bedard: 0:00

I know every time we do that as a team to find the process outcomes, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, apply technology, apply people, resources, it's, it's massively cathartic. This sense of clarity around, wow, I really know how we're going to deliver x. And we know the exact steps on how we're gonna do it and we know how to resource it and frankly, how to measure it and how to make sure in ensure accountability around it. Um, noth nothing to me in times of uncertainty brings more satisfaction than being able to, even, even if it's only a small part of your overall process, that you can break it down, define it, and now measure it.

Steve Sandor: 0:40

welcome to the Inspiring Business Podcast. This is a, a slightly different version of the same theme. Um, my guest today is Simon Badard, um, from Exit Advisory Group. I had to look at, he signed them to remind me who it was. Um, and this Simon and I had a, uh, a really good, uh, and solid conversation in late, uh, 2022. And at the end of that, um, episode, we said it'd be a really good idea to come back in 2023 and just have a look to see. We were thinking then probably post covid, right? But the circumstances that we are in today are slightly different. So Simon, welcome to the Inspiring Business Podcast once again.

Simon Bedard: 1:26

Thanks, Steve. Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure to come on and have a chat.

Steve Sandor: 1:28

So we, before we started, we'll hit the record button. We did say that, um, that there is a, uh, a different feeling in the market. This is at least what I'm seeing, so I'd love to hear your thoughts out a bit. When we hit Covid, no one knew what was going on. There was a lot of institution and government support around this global problem. Um, and even though we didn't know where it was going, I, I think there was a collective response that were going down this particular track, and the government got behind it and everybody got behind the government. This is slightly different. This is more the traditional. You know, macro microeconomic issues that we've dealt with in the seventies and the two thousands and, and all and everywhere in between. how do you feel that this is going to impact your business? And more importantly, what, what are you hearing in the market as to the direction that we're going?

Simon Bedard: 2:32

Yeah, for sure. Um, so, so a couple of quick things there. I I, I had a conversation with, um, a chap the other day. We were talking about Covid and Impacts, and somebody was asking me about, you know, oh, well, we were talking about, um, how we are continuing to manage Covid today, right? So here we are, it's April, 2023. And my comment to him was, and and, and you can probably tell where I'm gonna go with all this at the end, and it is, is, oh, are we still having that conversation? Mm-hmm. Like I, I thought that the covid discussion was gone, to be honest and I stand by that comment from, very much, from a business perspective, from a healthcare perspective. No, it, it, it's still there and it's still being managed. Um, sure. Attitudes have probably shifted a little bit. Protocols have probably shifted a little bit. Um, there's definitely been an easing, but in the health scene, I put my hand up and I'll say, yes, absolutely. I get it. If you, if you work in health, you, that's your world. It's probably still a very real and current thing. Um, but I think as, as the, I don't wanna speak for the world here, but from what I see in the business community, I think everyone had moved on from Covid. Mm. Halfway through last year. I think people just kind of, they got over it in 2021. They hit 2022 in this, but the first half of the year going, can we just shake off some of this stuff and just get on with it? Yeah. Now, ma, maybe I'm, my thinking is more at one end of the spectrum, you know, maybe there are people out there who in business who are still very, very concerned about this. And once again, I think if you're in the health space, it probably has more of an impact. But, um, yeah, I,

Steve Sandor: 4:10

sorry, I, I, I, I, when you meet somebody and they go, like, I had my hair cut yesterday and, and I said to the hairdresser, you know, how you going? And she goes, oh, and I, how was Easter? And she said, I had Covid and I went, Oh, is that still coming? People still, so did you have the, did you have the flu or covid? Right. So I, you know, I think, I think, you know, as you say, the protocols have relaxed the, there is, it's still going around. It's not as pandemic, if that's a word. Yes. Right. Yeah. So I, I think, I think you are right there. Um,

Simon Bedard: 4:46

yeah. And, and so I think, I think if you look at, let, let's talk about some macros for a second here, because I, I'm a massive believer that we're all very small boats in a very large ocean. And so the macros are the big waves that come. That's the, you know, really opportunities are created and shut down in the macro environment, right? And then companies respond to opportunities and industries respond and everything else. But it's ultimately we all are trying to react to the environment. And I think when last year everybody wanted to get on from Covid, the first half of the year was, yes, we're getting back to the real world. But what had really actually happened during that period, and look, this was starting earlier than, than just middle of last year, but the inflationary effects, mm. Down the line from both supply chain problems from this, what I think frankly was the myth of the great reg resignation and blah, blah, blah. Like people still need jobs. They still need to pay their bill.

Steve Sandor: 5:46

It was the Great Hop. It was a great job. Hop the people were leaving. There's definitely the data were saying that people were leaving jobs. Some were going out and starting their own businesses or working remotely in the gig economy. But the majority, and it's still a problem today, is that there is this job hop and people can see that, um, the opportu take the opportunity, ask for more money by moving from one job to another. Um, for

Simon Bedard: 6:14

sure, for sure., i, I think there was a gr there was the, I prefer to call it the great rethink of how we actually wanna work and what's important to us. And I do think that, you know, as we all know, large corporates, they're like big container ships. You know, they, they take a long time to turn and change directions. It's stuff like that. But I think, I think even the large corporates have recognized, Hey, we need to rethink the way we work. And certainly I think the, the guys that I still know in banking and some of the, the big end of town. Have said, this is a very active and live conversation for us. You know, what does the working environment of the new world look like and how do we reshape our, and quite frankly, refit out our offices to accommodate a different style of working framework. Mm-hmm. Um, of course, I'm already hearing, and I'm sure you are too, that a lot of corporates and people are now saying too, actually, we really want people to come back to the office. Mm-hmm. So it's, you know, yes, we're very open to all this change, particularly when we were bent over a barrel, but kind of now things are settling down. We really wanna get back to the way we want to do things. Mm-hmm. And so I, I, I think there'll be a little bit of that. I think there will be some permanent change that'll f wash through the system and we'll remain. Um, and, and, but ultimately I think we're human beings. Human beings don't like change in volatility. We look for stability, we look for consistency. And I think as, as creatures, we tend to default to what we know. And so I think there is this. Kind of getting back to how it used to be. And hey, don't get me wrong, Fridays and Mondays now appear to be very quiet in the cities because, you know, if anyone's gonna work from home, it's those days. Um, Thursday night as I'm as I'm told, cause I don't really go out anymore, but Thursday nights Yeah. Don't have a life. Got kids. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Right. Thursday's the big night out in town now where all the Right. Something go out and party because they don't come into the office on Friday. And yeah. So, you know, I I I think there are shifts that are happening out there. But um, back to my sort of key point around the macros though, was that I think we moved on from Covid and I think everybody was now faced with this new high inflationary environment, right? People were moving jobs, demanding better wages. There was interest rates started going up. There's pressures on supply chain, there's pressures, pressure, pressure. Um, and we're still talking about inflation at the moment, but I, what I sort of saw was. The back half of last year threw a lot of uncertainty into the market. Um, and Okay, interest rates and inflationary environments are not new. Certainly to people like you and me who've been through a couple of economic cycles. Um, you know, we've actually seen a recession.

Steve Sandor: 8:52

Um, in fact, there are opportunities. The, the interesting thing there are opportunities in those moments. I, I remember, you know, I bought my first house in 19 78, 9 or something like that, right. In inflation had just kicked off, right? Interest rates were high in, inflation was high, but the property prices were escalating at a significant rate. So it was like, okay, what's the problem? Right. You know, it's like

Simon Bedard: 9:19

For sure, for sure. And I think everything presents an opportunity, right? It's, um, you know, we saw that even in covid. Some companies responded really, really well and, and actually boomed and, and others, you know, struggled. But, um, I, I just think I, I, I guess to sort of summarize the macro environment, or the way I'm seeing it at the moment is that second half of 2022 was a lot of doom and gloom, a lot of negativity out there. Some companies were absolutely thumping it, they were so busy because of this massive flood of work that had come through, particularly people with long sales cycles. You know, I, I, I liken it too. If you looked at the construction and building sector, it's, it's that classic two speed economy in that one sector where some people I spoke to were so damn busy they couldn't take on a single new project, um, or, or buy a company office, by the way. Um, and others were basically going into administration. Mm-hmm. And we've seen a number of builders, including very, very large international groups mm-hmm. Whose Australian divisions went into administration at the end of last year. And so, And it's continued into this year. So there's almost this two speed thing even within sectors. And so I think, I think that came into Christmas. I think there was a, a carryover from last year around this. Ooh, where's it all going? And then I think in the last couple of months, the language, certainly from the R B A, certainly from the government seems to be, yeah, it's starting to calm down a little bit. And I, and I think people can start to see perhaps the end of this interest rate cycle. Yes, we might get another 25 points next month and we might even get another raise before the end of the financial year or in the next couple of months after that. But I think most pundits are sort of saying, yeah, we're kind of probably at the top of the range here now, somewhere close to it. Yeah. Um, and so therefore, what does. What's the next big problem, right? What's the next big issue in the economy we need to look at? Um, and so I think that shift in the rhetoric has started to filter through to business. And I think most businesses who were uncertain over the back half of 2022, are starting to also shift gear and say, well, where do we go from here? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think that's a positive. I think that's good. I think, I think, you know, the last thing we need is the chicken littles running around. The sky's gonna fall on our head. Um, panic, panic, panic. I, I mean, that to me never makes sense anyway. Right? I mean, I think you wanna be sitting back and thinking more in a more calculated fashion around, well what does this mean for me? Yeah. How will this impact the way my customers think? How do I continue to add value to them? Do I need to shift the way we work? Um, so that, that's the sort of. Thing that I'm seeing and certainly what I'd advocate to my clients.

Steve Sandor: 11:59

Yeah. Um, because I'm, I'm listening to and reading a lot more about the economy and the macro economy in particular. And, and there is this global phenomena. Um, and leaving aside, you know, um, global warming and the war in Ukraine, um, you know, the central banks, um, they can either let inflation run rampant right in, in which case they, uh, they re they control that by managing the interest rates, or not managing the interest rates, or they print money and, and everybody is, everybody is at the point now where they're going well, Treasury bonds are just gonna get issued. Um, that's printing money and um, you know, inflation will, will ramp up a little bit, but interest rates will be well in inflation will will ramp up a lot. But inflation, sorry, the interest rates will be maintained because that's what the, that's what the feds are going to be doing. So, yeah, I, I, I think I, and I'm not an economist, but I listen to and read a lot of what these people are saying and they tend to drive the narrative. So given, given that we agree on, you know, that that's the thing and the, we see, we can see the tsunami coming, right? We can see this big wave. We're in the ocean. Um, you know, we're looking at the weather maps, we see these things coming. What do we do? What, what, what, what are your, so we're talking about the opportunities that might there and how we, how we weather this storm. So where would you suggest that that. Your customers, how do they go about preparing for this storm and what do you think they should be doing first?

Simon Bedard: 13:45

Well, I think it depends on which storm we're talking about because there's, there's various different issues that are gonna affect different people in different ways. But, um, you know, I think one of the things that we, we tend to do, Steve, is I think we tend to overcomplicate things, um, as humans, as, as business owners and, and operators. And, um, I was having this discussion with a client just yesterday, um, and, you know, we were chatting and I think he was sort of downloading a bit and Oh, these things and Oh, that's overwhelmed, right? Oh, there's so many and work on an, uh, what do I do first? And, and I had to sort of say to him, and I, you know, we've got a little diagram somewhere around this, but it's so mate, just, you just stop for a second stop step back from this. I want you to come back up to sort of 20,000 feet with me for a moment. The, he Yeah. The helicopter view. Yeah, the helicopter. You exactly right. Business is not that complicated. But we overcomplicated because we're human beings and we have so many human elements that are involved. Fundamentally, what is the purpose of your company? Most people, by the way, in that situation say, make a profit. Yep, yep. Which is fine. We run businesses cuz we get you up in the morning. Doesn't get you up in the morning. It's not the main driver. And I, I always say to my clients, look, I hope you have a purpose beyond just profit. Because profit, once you start making money, that tends to fall away as a priority and it loses its meaning. So you know, you need something else to drive you and give you passion about what you do. So let's assume you have some kind of why a reason, a purpose to to be around and you have company has a purpose and a reason to exist. Um, yes. After that, you do need to make profit, right? Because if you don't make profit, you're not gonna be around to fill your purpose very long. So, okay. How do we make profit? Well, first of all, you need to generate revenue. And the second thing you need to do is deliver some value. It's two things. Yeah. It's, it's actually not that complicated now, okay, to generate revenue, you need to generate leads and you need to sell something, right? And, um, we all have to sell something in life, right? And, and I can hear people already going, oh, I don't sell anything. I'm in the back office. No, you have to sell your colleagues on why you add value to the process. You have to sell your bosses on why you are the right person, not the guy next to you. We're all selling, well,

Steve Sandor: 16:06

you're gonna make a, you, you're suggesting to make a change and the system, or a process, and you have to sell the idea. Get people

Simon Bedard: 16:12

to buy new. Surely Yeah, you've got more. But I, I'm,

Steve Sandor: 16:16

I, I had a, a client who has a back office operations person and they want them to move into a sales environment. And she was saying, I hate selling. And I go, yeah, I hate selling too. I, I hate it. What I love doing is solving problems and being curious. Yes. Right? And so she went, what? I go, well, that's what selling is, isn't it? You're solving a problem. You, you know, you have, someone comes to you with a problem, you have a, you either have the solution or you don't have the solution. If you don't have the solution, how can I help you find that solution? Cause it's not me, or I have the solution and hey, I can, and so this is how I can help you with that. Is that what you want? Right. It's no more difficult. So people who are in, you're right. You know, people who are sitting in the back office, you know, they're solving pro people's problems.

Simon Bedard: 17:04

Yep, yep. Absolutely. And I just think that's this outdated view of selling, being, I'm going to trick you into buying something you don't want so I can make money off you. It doesn't,

Steve Sandor: 17:16

doesn't work these days, does it? I mean, people see through that facade really, really quickly. And I think that's one of the values of social media. Is that it actually has taught us that people, you know, the six stages to success Yeah. Don't exist.

Simon Bedard: 17:31

Yeah. I, I, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's so funny. I, one of my, uh, friends I was chatting to, I was explaining to them how I usually turn up to my podcast and everything else. I haven't, I don't do a lot of research and work. I'll, I'll turn up to a meeting and they go, how could you do that? You're, you're not prepared. I, you know, I would freak out. And I said, well, no, no, no, no. Hang on a second. You're confusing your terms here. It's not that I'm not prepared. I know my stuff. I know the world I live in. I know that what we do, and I know what we don't do, and so I'm very, very prepared for that conversation. What I'm not like, what I can't research is what they're going to say. Mm-hmm. So what I do is I turn up with absolute intent to give them my full attention and where possible solve problems and where I can't. I say, sorry, I can't help you. Mm-hmm. And just by being, yeah, just by being authentic in that situation, I help them. People absolutely respect and appreciate and honest, no, I can't do it. And so, you know, you've added value by the fact that you, you've, you know, respected their time and respected their process. And, um, so it's, it's a funny one. You're right. I mean, it's, the, the world is, has, has changed. There is this concept of actually, if you just enjoy what you do and you give a shit about the people you talk to, um, and you, you, as you said, I never underestimate the value of curiosity in these things, um, then you know what? You'll deliver value and you will be successful because you've got the right approach and people will wanna work with you. So, but see, you know, come back up to the top, you know, let's helicopter view this thing again. Generate revenue. Deliver value. Like in all seriousness, I, one of the things that I think most people or business owners fail to do is to really break down the steps in their pro, in their, what they do. And say, well, how do we define very precisely how we work and how we deliver value? Um, I, I, I think, you know, we've been, we, we do this as an ongoing thing in our business to be frank. Um, you know, pull apart a process, redefine it, allocate resource, right? The outcome is this. Let's work backwards. How do we deliver that in the best, most efficient possible way? Cuz that is what the customers want. And work backwards and, and break it down. And I think the more I, I know every time we do that as a team to find the process outcomes, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, apply technology, apply people, resources, it's, it's massively cathartic. This sense of clarity around, wow, I really know how we're going to deliver x. And we know the exact steps on how we're gonna do it and we know how to resource it and frankly, how to measure it and how to make sure in ensure accountability around it. Um, noth nothing to me in times of uncertainty brings more satisfaction than being able to, even, even if it's only a small part of your overall process, that you can break it down, define it, and now measure it. And, and just by being able to do that in certain parts of your businesses, you will vastly transform the way you both operate now and think about the future. So that to me is one of the big recommendations I have for business owners is map your process. Not, it doesn't have to be everything to the nth degree. Pick something that you can get your arms around and measure and then break it down. Mm-hmm. And I promise you'll feel so good when you finish cuz you'll actually feel like you've got more control.

Steve Sandor: 20:57

It, it's interesting. Um, I mean, you know, this is why we get on so well. Right. We are singing from the same him book. But I, I I, I, I'm also conscious of the fact that I, you know, I don't want to be in an echo chamber where we're only just talking about this and I understand that one, it sounds so simple because you and I live and breathe this on a daily basis. What I have noticed is that business owners, particularly the ones who have, um, you know, they've been a very great technician within an organization, they've decided that they're gonna, you know, be the technician of and be their own boss. And they've been very successful at that. Yes. Um, and they've got it to a stage where they can manage the business whilst they are on their own in that, you know, in that really simple business structure. Yep. The challenge they have is when they get to a point and they're either trying to scale or they're looking for profit and they're not really sure how to go about doing that. And the, what I see, and I've been, you know, I've been guilty of this, is that I assume that I know everything and I can solve it myself. Mm-hmm. And one of the things that you spoke about earlier was, you know, this change, particularly in the corporate world where people are, you know, the businesses are wanting people to come back and work from the office. Mm-hmm. Um, that, that may be because they want to control people, but it also may be, I think the benefit of that. So if we don't throw the baby out with a bath, or, I think the benefit of that is that we actually start building relationships with each other and we value those relationships. If it, if Covid taught us anything, is that we want to be with other people physically in, you know, in situ, situ with them over the cup of coffee in the, in the tea room or over the cooler or bumping them into the, in the corridor and say, Hey, how you going? You know, and, and, and build that relationship so that you can build that trust on it. Yep. The, I I, um, for me, I encourage my, and I'm sure, and then you do this because you, you, you said it, you know, you get your team together to solve the problem. The mistake I think that business owners make is that they believe that they have to have all the answers because they own the business. Well, that's rubbish. So listener, if you, if you are trying to solve this on your own, Get your team around you and admit that you don't have the answers or you're trying to solve the problem. Yep. That potentially is there and you are gaining information from other people. It doesn't necessarily, and, and I think again, um, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, but again, I think I re the reason some people don't bring other people into the decision making process is because they feel as though when that person makes a suggestion, it's almost like, oh, well I have to, I have to adopt that because you've made that and you know, if I might, I might annoy you or, or piss you off because I'm not listening to you. And it's how you then go about explaining that back to the, to the group to say, yep, I'm listening, I'm hearing I'm doing all of that. But at the end of the day, this is my money and I'm, I'm, I'm gonna make the call, but I, what I'm asking is for your input, because you might have. An idea that no one's ever thought of.

Simon Bedard: 24:33

You know, Steve, it's a, it's a funny thing. I I, one of my most common sort of expressions I probably overuse, um, is that it's not what you say, it's how you say it. You know, it's not what you do, it's how you do it. Mm-hmm. And I think you are saying a similar thing here in the, in respect to all of this, and, and I, I, if I'm a, well, I am a business owner and, and, you know, I lead a number of organizations, but I, I'm never afraid of asking for people's advice because I'm worried, like, I'm not worried that people will be offended if I don't do what they do. Mm-hmm. Why? Because I'm actually presenting things in a fashion where, We're already saying no one person has the solution. We all have different ideas. There is no assumption here that should somebody speak up, that we're going to do it. Um, because there's an, there's an exploration phase and an understanding in a learning phase before you make a decision on things. And so I, I think so. So that's one thing. One, if you are hearing that and you go, oh, I've always been worried about that, don't be right. Like, think about your language that you use when you're talking to people and say, look, I'm exploring this idea and have you have, you know, what do you think? Have you done? Like, you're not committing to anything. Right? So put that aside as a fear, cause you shouldn't have it. What I would suggest, and what I see a lot of, and I guarantee you've seen this too, Steve, is that people who aren't, uh, let's say you've got a small team, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 people, whatever it might be, I've seen numerous of my clients turn up to a team meeting. With the idea that we need to explore a problem and get feedback, but when we get to that meeting, they go, okay, so we're here to explore this particular problem. And so here's the thing, I think we need to go da da, da. And they spit out.

Steve Sandor: 26:24

And no one's gonna, no one's going to, um, go against the boss, their thoughts, right? Correct. Everybody goes, right, that's what the boss wants to do.

Simon Bedard: 26:32

That's a great idea. That's a great idea. And, and by the way, and, and like some people will be able to, um, recognize that they don't necessarily agree in whatever else, but I, but a lot of people just cognitively actually just automatically lean into the bias and will actually tell themselves, yeah, you know what, that sounds like the right idea. And that sounds like the way to go. And I'm aligning myself. With the, the shift of power and where the, where the traffic is going. Right. Um, and that's a very, very normal human thing to do. Right. It goes back to when we were cave people and when the bigger guy came in with the club and said, we need to go over here. Everyone went, oh, probably should not up. Not a problem. Problem, not a problem. Bam, bam. Yes. Recently I had a client who I actually said it actually said at the beginning of the meeting, right? I want to get everyone's views on this particular idea. And, you know, because do, and, and I actually had to reach over and just put the hand on the arm and just go, hang on, you've posed the issue. What do you guys think? Yep. And, and I had to say to 'em afterwards, like, as the leader, you should always speak last, because otherwise you, you just, you, what you're doing is you're crawling everybody else's opportunity to have their own opinion. Mm-hmm. Like you're crawling their opportunity to be heard. And even if you don't do their idea, you can go, Hey Steve, that's a really interesting, um, you know, really interesting approach to it. I hadn't quite thought of that particular angle. That's really good. We'll have to take that on board. Mary, what do you think? You know, and literally go around the room and, okay, you might start hearing the same ideas after a while and then you can sort of say to the group, Hey, does anybody have anything different here? Like, it sounds like we've, we we're starting to get kind of some commonality across the themes, but what does everybody else think? And by the way, you know, as the leader, if you've listened to everybody else, you now have the ability to form a well more informed opinion yourself, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and once again, the other, so that's the first thing. But, and, and just to finish that, cuz I, sorry. I can see you wanted to, to add to that, but the other part to this is as a leader, don't feel, just because you've heard all these opinions, you need to make a decision on the spot. It's actually a hundred percent okay for you to go. Guys, this has been really interesting. You know, I, I'm, I'm personally am still probably a little undecided on, on what we should do and what am I, what we, why don't we put a pin in this one for the moment. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna have a bit of a think about this overnight and why don't we, um, come back and make a decision tomorrow or in a couple of days, or at the next team meeting or whatever it might be, right? Um, and by the way, that allows you to go outside of that meeting and maybe talk to those one or two people one-on-one now and say, talk to me a little bit more about that, Steve. Like, I was curious about what you were saying there. Can you help me understand that a little bit more, right? Mm-hmm. Now, uh, to me that kind of approach will generate better results in, I think, a hundred percent of cases, right? Than you coming in and dictating to people.

Steve Sandor: 29:37

So, yeah, it's a very melanesian approach, so, right. It, it's very, that, that's a lot of decisions in the Polynesian and Melanesian cultures. That's exactly what they do. Right. I learned that in, I learned that in p and g, you know, that was the frustration of us or by us because we're in this first world building. Yeah. Working with people who come from a different culture. Their whole decision making process was that everybody got a, got an opportunity to, to make state their case, state their thoughts, their grievances, their, you know, uh, their, their wishes, their desires, and it went around the room. And then guess what? No one made a decision. Guess what? Yes. We came back a week later, you know, and then there was, you know, o obviously if it was a major decision, there would be some, uh, jockeying for positions. Right. And, and you know, you would go and try and, um, you know, gain traction with your idea and politic at. So let's leave that aside. But, but you know, you would come back and you would go, what would, okay, let's have, let's have another round. Has everybody got the same thoughts? Has anybody had any new thoughts? You've had conversations? Can we evolve that? And then you get a clustering of ideas. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a and it is a brilliant, it is a brilliant way of being able to get a collective, uh, you know, it's two plus two equals seven. Yes. Because you get this idea that germinates into something that was a really ridiculous thought in isolation without context, but because someone jumped on that. So, yeah, I, yeah, that's, that probably wouldn't work. But let's explore that thread, right, because that's Oh, oh yeah, yeah. Okay. And then, you know, that whole idea then evolves into potentially a d a completely different approach. The, the one thing. I mean, you spoke about your business and, you know, being able to get people together. Mm-hmm. That can I suggest that that's didn't happen overnight and that that took some in your intention to build an organization that had, at its core an element of trust, honesty, and authenticity, that you could then pull people into that environment and they would feel comfortable and safe to be able to speak their word and, and understand that even though it might be totally against the grain of what everybody was, um, saying that it was embraced. Yeah. How did you go about how, what were, what were the steps that you took to be able to create that type of environment?

Simon Bedard: 32:33

Look, I, I, I liken it back to, look, it's about emotional intelligence, to be honest. And that might sound a little bit, I'm not trying to sound egotistical. I, I, I, you know, oh, hey, I have this thing or something. It's not, I don't mean it like that at all. It's

Steve Sandor: 32:45

No, mate. It's rare. I, you know, I, I honestly, I, the number of, the number of business owners, I, I, I'm over saying it's woowoo, right? Yeah. If you don't have emotional intelligence or some form of care or, or, uh, position in it as a, as a owner of a business, that you actually have purpose and you care, right? Yep. Yeah. People are just not gonna follow you. Yeah. We've, we've gone past this, you know. Oh, what, whoa, I can't, you know, I can't cry. Right? We've gone past it. So, yeah, I, if, if you haven't, dear listener, if you haven't investigated the emotional intelligence or um, you know, getting fully aware of your emotions and, and understanding what that is, then that is, this should be the catalyst, the start of that journey.

Simon Bedard: 33:39

Yep. And I and, and then now studies even coming out showing that people that EQ beats IQ every day of the week. Mm-hmm. People with emotional intelligence, you may not be the most intellectually smart person in the room, but if you have more EQ you will be more successful than the really smart, smart, smart person who thinks they're more clever than everybody else. But frankly, nobody wants to work with 'em cuz they're just a dick. Pardon me, sorry. I dunno if we can swear at this. No, no. We,

Steve Sandor: 34:03

we, we can square as much as you like, mate.

Simon Bedard: 34:06

So, yeah. So I, I think the thing is Steve, like there's a common expression in our company because we often laugh and say we're all kind of corporate escape and I don't want to be. And mud at corporates. It's not that it's, you know, I've, I've worked in some good environments, but our team often laughs and says, we've all kind of been out there and done a lot of stuff. And sometimes you have to work in an, in an environment to know what you don't want for the rest of your life. Mm-hmm. And so when you know what you don't want, even if you are not, uh, a hundred percent sure what you do want, it's easy to stay away from what you don't want. And by default you start to get more of what you like. And so I think for us and for myself and my wife Shanti, you know, we're, she's co-founder of the business and co-founder of, we've been co-founders of every business we've ever been involved in. Um, I think we very much started this business and the numerous companies we're involved in right now with this view of we know what we don't like and we know that. Here's another expression. Your vibe attracts your tribe, right? Like o other people who kind of believe what we believe will be attracted to our message. And so, you know, it starts with enough self-awareness to know that you don't have all the answers. Um, enough confidence and humility to go, Hey, I don't have all the answers. You might look at me as the leader or the boss, or the whatever. And I hate those kind of terms even because, you know, I'm not here to be somebody's boss. I'm here to be a part of a team. And we all have important roles to play and pieces fit together in different ways. And so, Um, you know, if, if you respect the fact that the car doesn't run without the tires and the wheels and the other components we're all important pieces to make this machine work, so let's respect that. What, what each contributes and, you know, Steve being a little bit sort of, um, self-deprecating in these kind of situations. Does it, it it breaks the ice, it lightens the mood, particularly where you've got people in other cultures, like we've got a team in the Philippines. Mm-hmm. Um, it's taken them a very long time to get their head around that we are not your typical company that they've worked for. Yeah. And that it's not this hierarchy or you will do what you are told environment. Like I keep encouraging them to go, no, no. What, but what's your view? What's your opinion? It's, it's okay if it's not, we don't agree or that we don't end up doing your idea, but it's important to be able to have a, have a, have a view, have a thought of your own. We encourage it

Steve Sandor: 36:34

and it goes against their culture. So this is the, the, again, you know this, I, I've, I've had Filipino VAs and I've worked in p and g, and it's almost when it's, it's so difficult for them to get their head around that concept because they've been colonialized for hundreds of years. Yep. So there's this hierarchy institutionally within their culture, um, of, uh, the people who are white have control. Yes. Right? Yep. And then within their culture, um, they have this deference to age and wisdom. Right. And so they always, you know, they'll, the, the women, the Filipino women will always look after, they're better looking after the family because they have this care and nurturing and motherly sort of approach. So when you, it, it's a challenge, you know? Yeah. When people have said, I'm hiring a va, I said, well, have you, do you realize that they will tell you that they can do it? When they know they're not telling you a lie, they just don't want to be disrespectful.

Simon Bedard: 37:40

Yeah. And and also I think too though, combine that with, uh, something I'm seeing a lot of these days is gotta be careful of broad generalizations here, but I see a, I see a little bit of a trend in some of the younger generations and this is not a bash on the younger millennials and all that sort of stuff cuz I, we're all on a bell curve. Every generation, people with different personality traits. But, but I think in this current environment, I see a lot of people who will say, oh yeah, I can do that, I can do this, I can do that. I can do, I've been told I can do anything and I can do, yeah, yeah, sure. But they actually have no idea how to do a lot of stuff and they don't know how to necessarily critically think about problems, break them down into their component parts, come up with the actual solutions, reverse engineer issues. That is actually a skill that I've started to realize I've taken for granted, that I've assumed that everybody knows kind of how to do that. You know, you want to get to a goal, well, don't you just work out what it is, and then you reverse engineer it. You break it down into parts that's, I was taught that in my very early twenties by an old sales manager who said, do you know how to get your sales target? And I said, what do you mean? Oh, you gotta go out there and sell. And he goes, yes, but do you know what you need to be doing day by day, hour by hour to achieve your goals?

Steve Sandor: 38:59

How many calls? And I said, well, you know, how many calls do you need to make? What? You know what?

Simon Bedard: 39:03

Correct. Right. And I, so I had enough, you know, humility and respect for my boss to go, I, I, I feel like there's a lesson in here, so perhaps just laid on me, right? Like, I just been playing the guessing game and, and if your target was to sell, you know, 20 widgets a month, well, you need to sell one widget a day. Well, how many calls and meetings do you need to do to sell one widget? Well, I need to do five meetings and outta five meetings I'll get one sale. And so how many calls do you need to do to get five meetings and da, da, da, da, da. And then broke it down to the, okay, shit. So I know I need to make at least two calls every hour, or compressor, you know what I mean? So,

Steve Sandor: 39:41

or, or get, or get better at closing, or closing is the old term, but, you know, get better at solving the problem.

Simon Bedard: 39:47

Correct. Right. And so this same concept, we've started, we, we've done a 360 here. Mm-hmm. Talking to my clients and doing this myself. When we break down individual processes in our business, What is the goal? How do we break it down into component parts? And by the way, you don't necessarily have to be the, have one person doing all of that. Now you might break that one process down into roles for three different people. But geez, isn't that nicely tightly measured and managed now because everybody knows specifically what they should be doing when they should be doing it, you know, how long they've got to finish it. And so that, that kind of introspection, that kind of understanding of how to solve problems, I think is not as prevalent as I thought it was. Yep. And I think when you understand that it's easier to look at problems in your business and how you ma manage things with your team and be less emotional about it because it's, hey, it's almost mechanical, right? Like what happens here and then what happens next? And, and be the leader. Talk to your staff about it and go, help me understand this. Like, I'm not asking these questions because I want to. You're in trouble or I'm questioning your work ethic or anything like that. My goal is to design this in the way that it gets the best possible outcome with the least possible effort. Yep. What does that look like? You know, help me, teach me here I'm, I, I might be the boss, but teach me how the best, you know, in your view, what's the best way of doing this.

Steve Sandor: 41:16

Yep. Again, we are so much on the same page. I, I, I just wanted to, if I can pull a little bit on that thread of the, the staff that are coming through and I, I wanted you, you and I work with small herb businesses, you know, the sort of up to potentially up to a hundred employees. Um, you know, I work in that 10 to 50 range. Um, and I, I was at a function last night and a person was saying how, uh, you know, I, I was saying that, The accounting practice where I was at, they were having lots of trouble finding good accountants, good bookkeepers with experience, and even the basic administration staff, the salaries that they have to pay these people to come and do meaning, you know, relatively meaningless types of tasks. And I'm not denigrating that role, but, you know, go and organize a cake. Um, go and, uh, you know, uh, make sure, you know, answer the phone, stuff like that. Yeah. They're paying significant amount of money to attract the right type of person. Yeah. And I said I think the model that we've had, uh, and, and the model sort of started in the seventies and eighties where you could just hire people with more money. Mm. Because you had profit. Yes, that you would, and, you know, inflation was gonna be sort of a little bit circling back to the original conversation that we had. You know, inflation was going up, or revenue was going up, profits were going up, and it was this cycle where you just couldn't help but be successful, right? You didn't really, obviously had to be good at what you did, but, but the money was there for you to be able to offer more people, you know, more money. I think we're at that stage now where you just can't run that model anymore. It's unsustainable. Um, and so the way to deal with, one of the ways to deal with that is that you hire at a more junior level and you push people up the, the, the food chain, right? So you hire, and then because you've hired them, that person who they're replacing trains them, they're being trained, you know, and you push the elevation up. And, and I was explaining this to one of the guests at this thing and she said, oh, we've tried that with, you know, we've hired these 20 year olds who. You know, they, you ring them up and they didn't turn up because they, they, um, you know, they slept in or, you know, and they don't have transport and they don't have money for a bus and all the rest of it. And I said, but you knew that when you hired them, didn't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and so what are you, what are you doing? And it's not about, you know, the employer doing everything for the employee, but if, if you know that your employees are like that, what conversations are you having with those employees to support them to find out what challenges and difficulties are the consequences of that, of their decisions as well. Right? So if they're continually behaving like this, do you just let it go and go, oh, well, you know, I'll, I'll, okay, well, you know, if you don't eat, if, if you don't eat your dinner, you're not getting ice cream. They don't eat their dinner and you give 'em ice cream. Everybody gets a part, everybody gets a participation award, right? Yeah. We need to

Simon Bedard: 44:38

Well, you get what you, you get what you reinforce. Right? And it's that old expression of the first problem that you walk past and don't do something about. Exactly. You've set a new standard within your organization. Right. So I think, I think there's definitely, I find this with, I'm gonna say it again, but I, I, I find with older generations the sense of accountability is quite different. Mm-hmm. Um, it's why we actually, in our business, tend to hire people who are older because they kind of get it. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, uh, we've had a, we've had a few, um, younger people in the team and, uh, once again, I'm gonna reinforce this, uh, this is not a pick on younger generations thing. It's we, we are. All the product of our environment. So we have actually created the next generation. Right. Um, it's, it's like when you family businesses, you know, they often say the first one makes the money, the next one maintains it, the third one loses it. Yeah. Because, you know what? Good times breed weak men. Weak, weak times. It's this old expression, this is not my expression and I've heard it many other times, but, you know, weak, weak men create bad times, bad times, create strong men. Strong men create good times. And by the way, substitute women in there. This is a people theme. Think mankind is the thing, not a gender thing. But what I think we've generated over this last 20 years is unprecedented advances in technology, um, you know, social media, the different ways we current, uh, this, this sense of, look o overly politically correct too is, is definitely we've gone too far in many ways. We haven't gone far enough in others. But what I'm seeing of the. What I will broadly call, I think the social media sort of phase of our lives is that we're so used to flicking over things at a surface level that nobody drills into it to, into issues or problems or skillsets to understand what's actually involved. And so, I'll give you an example. Um, we're we're, we had a younger lad who joined our team, lovely bloke. I, you know, still chat to him, respect him. Lovely, lovely, lovely person. But he literally said to me at one point, and I, I loved the fact that he had enough emotional intelligence to recognize this and be comfortable to raise it was he said, you know, Simon, when I first was being interviewed, I actually thought I'd come in here and be guiding you guys on what to do. And when I've, now that I've started, I've realized that I'm so far out of my depth. You guys are so damn advanced. And I had no idea how half of this stuff actually worked. Mm-hmm. And I thought, well, good on you for being able to step back and absolutely park an ego and say, wow, I've, I'm learning something here. Um, but it has also translated to other roles where we've hired people and I've realized I've made the mistake. Two, two things here. This is gonna be two good takeaways. I think for anyone listening to this is, um, one, when people are talking to you about what they can do, be careful if we're just using high level generic language about, you know, ah, it's X, Y, and Z and I've drilled into that. And sometimes when you unpeel the layers and you ask them, well, how specifically would you achieve that? Comes to this whole breaking down goals thing. People, people fall apart. They just, they can't actually explain it because they don't know how to do it. We've been so reading the, you know, the TikTok message that tells you, you know, oh, this is how you do it in a, in under 60 seconds. Cuz God forbid we should spend more than 60 seconds on anything. Um, that lack of depth is biting people in the ass. Okay. So, um, and dare I say, we're coming back to some pretty old habits here, but if you're gonna hire somebody, ask a hell of a lot of behavioral questions, you know, what would you do in this situation? What would you do in that situation? Well, on

Steve Sandor: 48:25

the, it's, it's, I would go even further and say, don't ask, what would you do? What have you done? Yeah.

Simon Bedard: 48:33

You know, because, and what would you do in this situation? Or what would you do in that situation? And cuz what you're actually not looking for is somebody who can solve every bloody problem you have. Yeah. What you're looking for is how do they think, how would they, how would they think about a problem and address it. Yeah. And, and you know, I, if somebody, coming back to what you said before, has a curious mind and the, the initiative to do something about problems that they see, well, that kind of person can learn any skill you want, right? Mm-hmm. So, so the first, that's my first tip there is dig deeper and ask people about specific behavioral situations so that you can understand how they think. The second thing is, and, and this is some, a trap I've fallen into myself and I see other business owners falling into all the time, is that, You've got a whole bunch of messy stuff going in your business that you want solved, and sometimes it just feels like overwhelming. You're just like, oh my God, if I could just hire somebody that's like really good, they'd be able to just, I could drop'em in here and they'll fix the problems. Right. And this feeds back into what you were saying about I'll just find somebody better and pay them more. We'll get somebody at a different level and instead of paying that person, this person here is 70 grand to solve some very specific problems, I'm gonna hire that person for 180 grand and they're gonna come in and wow, they'll just fix everything. Bullshit, absolute bullshit. It's not gonna happen. And that person is gonna come in and have just as many bloody problems as you have. Cuz what you've done as the business owner is you are trying to buy your way out of a set of problems and I promise you it will not work. It will not work because that person is still gonna come in and they're, all they're gonna be doing is dealing with the same set of problems you had, but without your experience, context, knowledge, and frankly level of care. Cuz it's your business. Mm-hmm. So if you're thinking of hiring the unicorn, stop, it doesn't work. Once again, putting my hand up here, tried to buy, tried to find a few unicorns in my time and it's bit me in the ass every time. Yep. Stop and understand. Get back up to the helicopter view. What are the one or two most important bloody things you need to be doing as a business? Start to accept that you can't do everything that you want to do and say, what is the number one or two priorities? And then broke those things down into micro detail almost of how do we get that done. Mm-hmm. How do we measure success? What does success look like? To define it? Measure it, and work on that. And by the way, And, and I'll gi I'm gonna give you a real life example here, right? Um, we did this the other day with how we're doing webinars now. We're doing more and more sessions like this, you know, for anybody who knows me, knows I have a podcast, um, we've systemized the, the Jesus outta of that. Um, we're doing a lot more webinars and we'll be going forward, but every time I would get a good idea, I'd go, oh, great, let's do another webinar. And I could almost hear the collective groan in the team of, oh my God, like, not another one, you know? And I'm like, what's the problem? Because you know what, Steve? I would turn up to a webinar like, I've turned up to this and go, cool, we're gonna talk about X today. And I'm just talking off the cuff. It's, it's pretty easy. I get do an hour worth of talking and come off you go, everybody do your magic and get this out there to the world and let's, you know. And so Shanti, my wife, marketing director, co-founder, said, I. We need to actually break this down. First of all, you need to understand what goes on in the team when you want to do these webinars. Yeah. And b, we need to resource this properly because the unicorn didn't work out right? Yeah. So we sat there over a, over a day and we mapped it and we literally mapped out every single thing that's involved with us to do a webinar. And do you know, what we realized is that for one webinar, it takes about 34 hours of labor Yeah.

Steve Sandor: 52:11

To do everything and, and the ti and the time and the preparation and everything. Otherwise, otherwise, you're spending 20 hours of it and it's a failure.

Simon Bedard: 52:19

My time in that was two hours, an hour briefing, an hour worth of doing, and I'm like, oh, no wonder I thought this was so damn simple. And, and so, but, but in the end, Steve, we're, we've now created a, a, a job description for somebody to come and manage digital events for us because we know exactly what we want that person to do. Mm-hmm. We have the technology to support that process and be able to manage a step by step, and which not only allows that person to have a framework to do the job, but it allows us a system to measure. What's happening when it's happening, if is it successful? And so problem solved.

Steve Sandor: 52:53

I I, I don't know. We, we didn't script this, right? So there's nothing but I, I've written down about five minutes ago job descriptions in Yeah, because I wanted to talk about that because what I, it's really interesting that a lot of small business owners, they, they've heard of a job description that, you know, they think it might be something that you put in an ad. Uh, yeah. Uh, and, and that's it. And once you've done that, it's done. Right. And that was, quite frankly, up until 2009 when I went to Papua New Guinea to work in a human resource company. You know, I bele, I believe that that's all it was. It wasn't actually until I got into the, the use case of a job description, all the various components or where it could be useful. And, and it's actually a tool for the manager of people. So not that I used to go in and say, who's the human resource manager here? There'd be half a dozen managers and a human resource department manager. And they'd all point to this person. Typically a female, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I would go, okay, let me ask the question differently. Who are the managers of people? The human resource people managers. Yeah. Yeah. And I go, oh, all of you people. Well, you have the Human resource Management, responsibility and accountability. They just managed the process, the Human Resource department. So it sort of gave a little bit more context. And the, the def you know, accountability versus responsibility. Yes. Knowing what you're accountable for, knowing what you do. So a a friend of mine says, I just want to know which throat to choke. Right? I just want one throat to choke. Tell me who that is, cuz that's their accountable for it. Yeah. The other, the other part was the, you know, the, uh, what I loved you talking about is the behavior. You know, again, with behavioral-based interviewing, what your, what the job description will allow you to do is to define whether the person needs to have a creative or a very data-driven or method, you know, method. Um, a disciplined approach or methodical approach to solving the problems, right? Yeah. And so what you are looking for is what is the common theme? And you use that in the job description, you know, you can describe it that, you know, to be either creative or to be logical. And then the questions that you ask people are benign questions that enable them to answer in a way that indicates their behavior. So if you ask somebody, you know, tell me about your day. That's the first question you asked them. And they say, well, I woke up in the morning and I, you know, uh, at six o'clock and I had breakfast and I had a shower. And it's a long list of things. Or they look at you and go today, you know, it's like their mind has gone creative. They're trying to, you know, solve. So just as that, that questioning, because what you then do through that process, so it originates in the account, in the job description, but what it manifests itself in is a way that you can actually identify the right characteristics for that person so that when they're in their job, they love doing it because that's what they love doing. If you get, you know, management accountant and financial accountant, if you've got a financial accountant who's creative, they should be a management accountant, but you put'em into a financial management role, they're gonna be creative. That's not what you want. That's the only way. Yeah. Yeah. It's.

Simon Bedard: 56:36

But to come back to your point too, Steve, on the job description, I mean we had this situation ourselves where you, you start to create a JD around what is this new role we're gonna hire for? And I think people start to write these things out and it starts with, okay, well there's a couple of things here that we really want. It's a list of tasks. Yeah. But then it goes, oh, but then it'd be great if they could do this. Yes. And Grant. Cause they could do that. And all of a sudden you're back to, they've just written a job description for another unicorn. Yep. It's like, hang on a second. Like, we don't need them to be amazing at everything. We need them to be good at this, this, and this. Yeah. And do you know what? If they've got a few experiences in other things, that gives them context. Lovely. But, but I actually think it's a bit like when you buy a business, it's a bit like when you buy a property, if you're gonna hire a person, have a list of things, they absolutely must have these ideal breakers. If you don't have these couple of things, There's no point going on. Yep. You may have a li like a list of things that you, they must not have, you know what I mean? Like, um, if you do have this, it's a deal breaker. It's black and white, they're digital. They, it's just so simple and unemotional. Yes. Now in the middle we've got all the things that are, uh, compromises or lovely, nice to haves and all that sort of stuff. But if you're not ticking a couple of these boxes, let's not bother going any further with this. Cuz we're wasting your time. Yeah. You're wasting ours. Um, and and interestingly when we did that for this most recent hire we're, we're, um, you know, searching for, and the chap we're talking to is helping us with the recruitment. Said so, so, well let's off, let's talk about the most important things to you. And you're gonna see a theme here, Steve, but it was number one, curious mind. Absolutely. They have to be curious. Curious about life, curious about the world, curious about what's going on in front of them. Because the person who is curious will ask questions and understand the nature of this thing. And that thing happens to be mostly in business problems. Problems we need to solve. Um, so curious. They have to have initiative. They like to actually have to not be able to go, oh, that's a curious problem. I've identified, well, that's somebody else's issue. I really can't be bothered. Just that in my job description. Right. Curious. Have initiative. The third thing was communication skills. Now okay, if you're hiring in other countries, like actual language skills is an important thing. Mm-hmm. Um, The ability to, to understand what we are saying. Um, you know what I'm saying? And what, you know, we are understanding each other. So lang language skills is a critical part of communication. But as I often say, you know, we've got people in the Philippines, we've got people in other countries, we, we've got that people we outsource in India and Sri Lanka, their ability to speak gli English is a hell of hell of a lot better than my ability to speak Tagalog or Hindi or whatever. I love that actually respect their ability to commute. Absolutely. Yeah. But here's the thing, and this comes outta disc profiling, by the way. So if you're not doing disc profiling and personality temperament stuff with your team, you should look at that. But in a conversation here, I say this to my kids, by the way, so it helps with whose job is it? If I'm talking to you, Steve, whose job is it to make sure that I am understood? Is it your job to, to instinctively understand what I'm saying? And is it your responsibility to make sure you understand what I'm saying, or is it my responsibility to make sure I communicate clearly and make sure that through other verbal cues and active listening and paraphrasing and all this sort of stuff, is it my job to make sure you understand what I'm asking of you and what is being said? Um, that this thing around communication, once again is a under underrated and underestimated skill. Um, we assume that people just do this, but they don't. And so when we fit off our curiosity initiative, communication skills, you know, some self-awareness, bit of emotional intelligence comes in there and literally these were all traits that we'd listed off. And he goes, what, what about skills? He said, mate, you gimme someone who's got those things. I'll teach him anything. Yeah. You know, I'm like, yeah, you know, there's your personal and that's a bonus. That's a bonus, isn't it? That's right. You know, you talked about hiring people who you can push up the curve or gimme someone with those skills. They can learn anything and over time they, I keep laughing and saying, I'm not wedded to being the CEO O here. Mm-hmm. If someone wants to put their hand up and, and fill the role, man, I'll step aside. You like, I'd, I'd love it if somebody was better at this than me because it's bring me up to go and do something else.

Steve Sandor: 1:01:10

In fact, I had a, a conversation with Karl Schwantes, who's, um, and, and his. Interview comes out the week before yours. Um, and he was talking about, you know, he's replaced himself in his jewelry business so we can go off and do other things, right? So find people that are better than you. So, um, uh, two o one allow you to go off and do the things that you want to do, but two, um, sometimes they bring a different level of energy, a a different stage of the business might need somebody different. You might have been great at getting it to this point in time, but you, you don't necessarily want to or can get it beyond the, the next point isn't that there's no, um, I mean, I, I, I, some of the, some of the most successful entrepreneurs that I've ever worked for have been, and in air quotes, right, the laziest people I know, not from an energetic level, right? So they, it's not that they come in and slot around a drink coke or, you know, um, uh, you know, do nothing every day, but they only do what they love doing, and they will find people that are better than them at that skill that they don't particularly like to do. It's not that they don't know about that skill, it's just that they don't like doing it. So they'll hire somebody and, and, and, you know, let them, let them. Perform in that. Yeah.

Simon Bedard: 1:02:33

But, but that's that old, you know, everyone's heard of the 80 20 rule, the Preto principle and all that sort of stuff. Like why do something in 10 steps if you could do it in five or three? Yeah. You know, that's, that's what you're talking about there with that lazy laziness. And it's, lazy is funny word cuz it's a little bit controversial and it makes people go, oh my God. Well that's the reason I use it. Right? So people go, what do you mean I'm a lazy entrepreneur? Well, you know, ah, you're listening now. Yeah, totally. Right. And that's great because it's, but it does make, it makes the point. Mm-hmm. You've gotta think about how to do things in the most simple, logical, and preferably measurable way, and you will achieve better outcomes more consistently and feel, even if it is somewhat of an illusion, like you have more control. Mm-hmm.

Steve Sandor: 1:03:15

Um, I've just looked at the clock. Wow. We could, we could keep going. We could keep going again and we'll, we'll, you know, we, let's make it a quarterly thing. Um. But isn't it interesting how we started this conversation around the potential opportunities that present themselves in this current environment? You know, we've got high inflation potentially, um, or we've got interest rates that, you know, have peaked. If not, um, you know, maybe there's a little bit edge there. There's a certain high level of certainty, uncertainty in the marketplace. People are just not sure where to go and what did we do? We levitated back towards what is the glute that holds a business together, which is people. And if you get your people right and your purpose right, then everything else will flow.

Simon Bedard: 1:04:06

Yeah. Yeah. And I would add, and I'll add to that, so people, you have your purpose. That's why you exist, right? Like, God, we all need something that's more motivating than just making a couple of bucks. Yeah. But you purpose your people. And I'm gonna throw in there your process because all of that people, people say to me, see what's the difference between a process and a system? I say, well, what's the difference between a set of an ingredients and a full, uh, recipe that describes how to mix those ingredients to bait the cake? You just throw everything in a Balmain sludge, SLU sludge. I guarantee you it'll be a pretty ugly outcome. Yeah. But if you follow this step by step and you have the right person in there doing it, you'll deliver a beautiful cake that everyone enjoys eating. So yeah, those three factors, purpose, people, and process creates a system. A system generates consistent revenue profit that allows you to achieve your goal, your bigger purpose. I guarantee you, you'll be a hell, a hell of a lot happier. Yeah, I

Steve Sandor: 1:04:58

am. For those of you who can see this on video, if you're listening to it, I've got a Venn diagram on my back screen. Um, it says process, people and performance. Um, and in at the. Core of that is care and, and profit fits in there, profit flows as a result, result of, you know, as a result of all of that. Yeah. Um, Simon, once again, thanks. Thanks so much. It was so much fun. Really enjoyed this. I hope the, uh, listener got a lot of value from this. I know I did. So I really do appreciate you taking the time to spend with me on the Inspiring Business Podcast.

Simon Bedard: 1:05:35

Oh, my pleasure, Steve. Thanks again for having me on.

Steve Sandor: 1:05:38

Well, I hope you got a lot of value from that. Uh, I know when ever Simon and I get together we have such a hoot we're on so many levels on the same page. Um, but there was some just, again, just some really nuggets of gold again, in this conversation with Simon. My name's steve sander and there are plenty of additional resources on our website www.inspiringbusiness.net. and you can always contact me through linkedin So if you really liked listening to this please put a comment on the platform that you're listening to it on And once again Really do appreciate you listening to this inspiring business podcast and my wish As always is to inspire and energize you To take action so you too can make a difference in your and others' lives